March 28 2009 at 11:54:39 Name: Daniel Wright Topic: Vanished Tulsa Restaurants Comments: I remember a sea food place called the Hungry
Pelican, The Royal Fork all you can eat buffet, Another buffet called The
Choice, Frank's Bodacious Inn. I also vaguely remember a sea food place that
had a statue of an Eskimo boy in the lobby.
March 28 2009 at 09:50:25 Name: John B Topic: Zemi's Comments: I remember Zemis in Tulsa - and the machines
the came in. But it is a vague memory - I seem to remember them around the
time my alien abduction episodes starting happening.
March 28 2009 at 09:49:42 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Irving R. Levine
Comments: Saw late last night that the long-time Washington fixture
and NBC reporter had passed.
He was a "get it right" kind of guy - according to some old Washington hands,
whom I used to work with.
I found this anecdote about him:
Covering economics, even more than covering the USSR vs. the United States,
made Mr. Levine an enemy of jargon. "There's an enormous temptation to use
all the grandiose terms economists use to impress people with their erudition,
but I've always made a great effort to stay away from the jargon and use
terminology viewers can understand," he said.
The economics assignment gave Mr. Levine a mild-mannered persona, and his
trademark bow tie did little to subtract from a Mr. Peepers image.
Once, on a David Letterman Top 10 list asking "How do you know if you're
really boring?" No. 4 was : "During sex, your wife calls out the name of
Irving R. Levine."
Mr. Levine said he loved it, "but my wife, well, she wasn't as pleased."
March 28 2009 at 00:25:50 Name: Chris Rankin Topic: Gone But Not Forgotten Tulsa
Restaurants Comments: Restaurants that used to be in Tulsa:
Can anybody else list some I am surely forgetting?
Also, I have seen a couple of posts regarding the frozen drink called Zemi's.
My brother and myself remember drinking them like alcoholics back in the
70's, they were that addictive. He went to Whitney Jr. High and I remember
when they would go to Edison to play basketball games, they had one of the
machines. I would beg the folks for quarter after quarter to get those things.
Strangely, internet searches for this drink prove fruitless. Almost as though
they never existed. Anyone else remember them?
Zemis were mentioned by David Bagsby in GB 147
and by others near the bottom of GB 148.
March 27 2009 at 22:50:11 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: How bad is the snow in Tulsa?
Comments: Doug Dodd wrote me earlier today that it was coming.
In Chicago we will get some of it Sat. night and about 15 miles West of me.
They are talking 6 inches of it. Our flowers and trees have just started
budding.
March 27 2009 at 16:04:41 Name: Webmaster Topic: Fred Taylor Furniture jingle
Comments:
No one is going to remember this, but here goes.
Must have been in the late 70s, or the 80s, Fred Taylor Furniture had a TV
commercial-closing jingle:
"The moment that you walk in the door
Fred Taylor Furniture offers more."
The tune sounded like it wanted to be very funky, but a non-funky choir sang
it. Then at the end was kind of a musical sting, done by a decidedly, once
again, non-funky orchestra.
The reason I remember it is because I tickled myself by visualizing Ray Charles
keeping time with his whole body.
March 27 2009 at 12:30:49 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Doug McAllister
Comments: From an e-mail from Stuart Odell - he says Doug is now
a Mass Media Instructor down at NSU in Tahlequah. Has anybody crossed his
path down there?
March 27 2009 at 05:05:10 Name: David Bagsby Topic: Sheridan Village
Comments: Dr. Putnam was our Dr. @ that locale upstairs. All I
recall about Borden's was a big treasure chest of random junk you could take
like those finger traps and yo-yo type stuff. Thank you for remembering House
of Hobbies. Used to get Estes Rocket gear there and they had a good selection
of remote airplanes, model r.r. apparel.
March 26 2009 at 19:09:46 Name: Michael D. Trout Topic: Farewell to Sheridan Village Email: Just west on Admiral at House
of Hobbies Comments: Now that Sheridan Village is gone, some final thoughts.
. . .
We lived a little less than a mile north. We didn't shop at Sheridan Village
all that often; maybe once a month or so at the T.G. & Y. or J.C. Penney.
As a kid, I always liked the T.G. & Y. as a great source of unusual stuff.
Best was their good selection of model airplane kits--not as extensive or
as cheap as the Ben Franklin at Airway Center, but there were always at least
a few unusual airplanes available. From time to time my dad went into Otasco,
which was also good for bicycle supplies.
But our most frequent visits to Sheridan Village were for supper at Borden's
Cafeteria. Of course, I and my siblings thought the best part was driving
up the ramp to park on the roof. Borden's was also fun because of the fairly
complex track for pushing your food tray around--plus we were allowed chocolate
milk, which was not a common Trout family staple.
Displayed around the walls of Borden's were several signs: "We reserve the
right to refuse service to anyone." One day when I was old enough to wonder
about such things, I asked my mom what it meant. She didn't give me a exact
answer, but I was able to figure out that the signs gave Borden's customers
some reassurance that they would not be dining in the presence of black people.
I didn't think much of it at the time, but as the years went by it began
to bother me.
In the early 1960s we began frequenting the medical office upstairs toward
the east end of the Village. I can't remember the doctor's name, but I'll
never forget one visit about 1966. I had developed a plantar wart and, being
a typical surly teen, told no one. It wasn't until my parents noticed me
limping that they dragged me to the Sheridan Village doctor. He removed my
wart with an electric needle. I never really knew pain until then, and I
can still remember it vividly. When my daughter developed a plantar wart
a couple of years ago, I was delighted to learn that electric needles had
disappeared along with medicinal bleeding, and my daughter's wart was painlessly
removed with liquid nitrogen.
March 25 2009 at 17:52:45 Name: Karl Soliday Topic: Rockin' John Henry Birthday Tribute
Show Email: mauikarl at cox dot net Comments: Gary Rofkahr at Rogers State Radio will be doing
a birthday tribute show to Rockin' John Henry, this coming Saturday, 3/28.
Johnny was actually born 4/4/44, but due to technical difficulties Gary will
be doing his birthday show this Saturday.
March 25 2009 at 15:04:04 Name: Rimshot Topic: KAKC DJ Comments: I remember a KAKC (I think) DJ named A. Allen
Abbott(sp?). Does anyone know what became of him?
March 25 2009 at 10:20:09 Name: Clan LeMoine's Senior Sibling Topic: Fargo Flood - TTM Homey Mr. Stevens Email: Graveyard Shift at Helmut's
Alpine Kitchen Comments: Just a shout-out to TTM denizen Charles Stevens
in Fargo ND:
Hope you and yours stay safe in the imminent flooding up there.
Best wishes from survivors of Mingo Creek '84 (which was nothin', compared
to what Fargo's going to get.)
March 25 2009 at 04:37:36 Name: James Clarke Topic: Tulsa remembers The Outsiders Email:
greasersocproject@yahoo.com Comments: Is there anyone in Tulsa who might have any information
about anyone who appeared in the film or was associated with the filming
of The Outsiders?
That could be anyone who was an extra at any of the shooting locations in
1982, Tulsa, Owasso, Sperry, Skiatook, school extras at Will Rogers High
School or children who now are grown ups at the church fire in Skiatook,
anyone whose house, business or vehicle appeared in the film, location owners,
especially anyone who was a Soc or Greaser and appeared in the Rumble fight
scene.
Anyone have any photos from the filming or any of the locations back then?
We have several on location photos of individuals who cannot be identified.
This is for the documentary on the people and places involved in the filming
of the 1983 film The Outsiders.
I can be contacted by calling 817-691-3653 (leave message with phone number
or text) or email.
March 24 2009 at 18:37:10 Name: over in Ranch Acres Topic: BoK Center dining
Comments: Don't forget the Original Coney Island at 4th and Cheyenne!
Dinner for you and your sweetie: ten bucks... splurge for the good
parking!
March 24 2009 at 08:30:10 Name: Frank Morrow Topic: Commercial Airport Email: frankdotmorrow@cox.net Comments: There was another small airport in Tulsa that was
located at what is now 61st and Yale: Commercial
Airport. Its name was later changed in the 50s to Cherokee Airport. My
Dad, who used his post-war GI bill to learn flying, used this field as well
as Brown's.
In those days the sky would be filled with small, single-engine airplanes.
A pilot had to keep a sharp eye for those machines as well as the big airliners.
Flying at night could be particularly scary.
March 23 2009 at 09:44:05 Name: Erick Topic: Fleetwood Mac concert Comments: I will also be attending the Fleetwood Mac
concert. BOK Center parking is simple, although many make it out to be very
difficult. There is plenty of parking along the streets, as parking meters
are not monitored after 5pm Mon-Fri or on weekends. Otherwise, some private
parking lots offer parking for $5-$10. I always take the really easy route
and park in the Civic Center Parkade just southwest of the arena. Parking
is $5. There's a map of parking venues on the BOK Center's website under
the Guest Services tab.
For dinner, there are plenty of good places to eat in the Brady District,
which is nearby. Spaghetti Warehouse, El Guapo's, McNellie's, and Mexicali
are just a few places that come to mind that are open Sunday evenings. You
can go to DowntownLive.org for more
restaurants with hours and maps.
March 22 2009 at 20:02:40 Name: Former TUer Topic: Fleetwood Mac Concert 5/3 Email: bennettsdad@yahoo.com Comments: Hey--I really enjoy reading and posting on this
blog. I am returning to Tulsa on Sunday night, 5/3, to take my beloved to
the Fleetwood Mac concert at the BOK Center. I am wondering if anyone here
has any suggestions for a special place to have dinner before the concert,
that is close to downtown. Because it is on a Sunday, a lot of locally owned
places like Polo Grill will be closed. How is the parking at the BOK? Thanks
in advance for your help!
March 22 2009 at 19:09:16 Name: John K. Young Topic: Cheese Frenchee Anyone? Email:
johnk662561atyahoodotcom Comments: Just to let everyone know...tried out the
recipe for "King's Host Cheese Frenchee" tonight.
I made it using crushed-up saltines instead of corn flakes, per the reviewer
comments at the site of the recipe, mixing the cheese powder with the cracker
crumbs.
Turned out to be very "tastee" indeed. I also am now aware of the fact that
one should probably have the metabolism of a teenager to be able to eat one
with complete enjoyment...along with the innocence of ignorance about cholesterol
and all that stuff. Of course, being Oklahoma born and raised, I know the
official un-official state motto: "If'n it ain't fried, it ain't food!"
In the words of the old Alka-Seltzer commercial, "TRY it, you'll LIKE
it!"
March 22 2009 at 17:47:00 Name: David Batterson Topic: Froug's Comments: In my early years I worked at Froug's Sand
Springs, in the men's dept. It was OK, and I bought a lot of nice clothes
at 20 percent store discount out of my paycheck.
My parents had a store next door (Batterson's), and we had an unfortunate
fire in 1966. Jim Peters was doing news
at KAKC at the time, and drove out to do a remote report.
While they got the fire under control, heavy smoke poured into Froug's next
door and it was shut down for some time while they cleaned up the place from
the smoke damage and restocked the store.
March 22 2009 at 13:16:45 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: The Collective Comments: At 11th & Harvard? How long has this been
there? Seems "so Cherry Street" for that part of town. (See
current Tulsa Coffee Houses.)
March 20 2009 at 22:22:17 Name: Richard Wilson Topic: Southland Email: riccolites@yahoo.com Comments: Brown-Dunkin (later, Dillards) was on the east end
of the main leg of Southland Shopping Center, J.C. Penney's was on the West
end of the center and Froug's (the largest of the 10 Froug's stores) was
in the middle on the South side.
(Webmaster: In GB 303, Jim Mac, who worked for J.C. Penney in the 1970s,
noted that Froug's was located directly to the south of J.C. Penney at Southland,
rather than in the middle.)
As a sidebar, William Froug(IMDb), brother of the retail magnate, was a very successful producer
in Hollyweird. He produced such memorable shows as
"Adventures in Paradise" (starring Gardner
McKay) as well as a number of episodes of the original "Twilight Zone" There
were a number of others....but I can't rattle them loose from the fog. (velvet
or otherwise)
Great information, thanks, Richard!
The Wikipedia entry for
William Froug states
that he was adopted by the retailing Froug family.
Courtesy of Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County
Library and the Tulsa Historical Society
March 20 2009 at 18:55:21 Name: Pizzabob Topic: Tulsa airports Email: mtm47@msn.com Comments: There was a small airport east of Mingo on 81st,
I believe that it was called the 81st Street Airport.
March 20 2009 at 16:34:59 Name:
Gary Chew Topic: California Sweet Email: Northeast of Eden Comments: Shout out to Mike Miller! Gawd, I'd forgotten about
Torme's "California Suite." And I remember your playing it on the radio,
too. But were you able to hum all of it?
"La Jolla, wanna knoy-ya!!!" Only Mel Torme could come up with that one.
Delmeaux de Gillette du Coffeyville.
March 20 2009 at 13:19:58 Name: Steve Smith Topic: Woolco / Looboyle's Email: esskayess@hotmail.com Comments: There was indeed a Woolco at 41st and Yale when
I lived in the Tulsa area. It was attached to Southroads Mall. Froug's was
on the Southland Side of 41st. The only Sanger-Harris I remember was at Woodland
Hills Mall (replaced by Foley's), which had in turn replaced the John A.
Brown there.
I remember the Looboyle's stores and their outdoorsy merchandise, but not
exactly where they were. I do remember their billboards: 'HELLO LOOBOYLE,
GOOD BUY, TULSA.' When the chain went out of business, it reversed it for
a final sale: 'HELLO TULSA, GOODBYE LOOBOYLE.'
March 20 2009 at 11:31:33 Name:
Mike Miller Topic: The Suite Sound of Mel Tormé
Comments: I'm surprised no one has mentioned Mel Tormé's
California Suite. It came out around 1957 as I recall and was a personal
favorite. Remember: "The West Coast is the Best Coast in the Land!" The suite
never got much play on radio although I played a few cuts on KTUL-Radio at
night.
I believe Sammy Davis recorded the suite some years later.
March 20 2009 at 09:28:59 Name:
Jim Ruddle Topic: Various Comments: Hollywood tried to make a glamour guy out of
Torme, but it didn't work. He was lots of things, however, matinee idol he
was not.
Thirty years ago or so Torme noted that "Christmas Song," his composition,
paid him about 75-thousand per year in royalties. A comfortable bundle then,
enough to allow him to concentrate on jazz.
Western Village did indeed have an airstrip and ballyhooed that as one of
its prime attractions when it opened.
Somebody mentioned Harvey Young airport. Does anyone remember another private
airfield: Brown's?
All the talk about Anita reminds me of what a nice, sweet kid she was when
she began her career in Tulsa. I think she was about fifteen the first time
I saw and heard her. She was on KOTV on several occasions when I worked there
and bonded with Marna Bryant, who accompanied her.
Of course, Godfrey was a CBS product and it was for that reason that the
talent search came to KOTV picking up both Anita and cameraman Marvin Lawill
as vocalists for the network talent show.. 0897
Courtesy of Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa,
Tulsa City-County Library and the Tulsa Historical Society
March 20 2009 at 09:22:40 Name: over in Ranch Acres Topic: 41st and Yale Comments: Not to forget Looboyle's...
March 20 2009 at 06:59:57 Name: Irritated Tulsan Topic: 41st and Yale Email:
irritatedtulsan@gmail.com Comments: Wasn't there a Woolco in the same location as the
41st and Yale Reasor's?
All
Woolco
photos in the Beryl Ford Collection. These are shots of Woolco's auto
center, inside and out.
Courtesy of Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County
Library and the Tulsa Historical Society
March 20 2009 at 06:52:57 Name: over in Ranch Acres Topic: 41st and Yale Shopping
Comments: If my memory serves me, there was a Froug's in the old
Southland Shopping Center (then again. there was a Froug's almost on every
coner) as well as Brown Dunkin, now Dillards.
The building were Macy's is wasn't built until the mid-80's when Southland
was turned into an indoor mall and renamed the Promenade. I think Foley's
was the original tenant, having moved across the street from Southroads Mall.
The only John A. Brown I remember was in the old Vandevers spot at Utica
Square.
March 19 2009 at 19:28:32 Name: Rose Bowl Bunker Commander Topic: 41st and Yale Shopping Comments: My recollection is that Sanger Harris was in
the former Southroads Mall location, where Reasor's now is. The former Southland
site which is now Macy's was, I believe, Froug's.
(Later note...)
Mrs. Commander thinks the Southland store was John A. Brown, and I suspect
that's correct.
March 19 2009 at 19:05:10 Name: Beverly Topic: Shopping
Comments: Maybe Sanger-Harris?
March 19 2009 at 18:54:32 Name: Nancy Kenton Setter Topic: Tulsa Shopping Email: NKSetter@aol.com Comments: OK, just got a call from a friend in D.C who sounded
very sober. Wanted to know: Which department store chain did Foley's buy
out in Tulsa? I was certain I knew...
eventually called another friend...we give up.
Tulsa Shoppers: What store in, say "Southland Mall" eventually became "Foley's"
and is now "Macy's"?
...few things more sad than a shopper who can't remember the scene of her
best buys...
March 19 2009 at 15:01:33 Name:
Gary Chew Topic: Torme, Hillis & Woodward Comments: The Torme thread continues, I guess. To Hillis
and Woodward and other big fans of Mel:
Not long after I came to Sacramento about 20 years ago, I had the opportunity
to interview Torme on the phone. He was coming in to perform with the Sac
Sym, as I remember.
He was at his home down in SoCal. I was in a tiny recording/news studio at
KXPR. He was also engaged, at the moment, giving instructions to who I guess
was his handyman doing some tasks there in Mel's place.
Occasionally, Mel would hold off on the interview to instruct the guy on
what he wanted done in the kitchen or bathroom, or wherever it was.
I thought I'd be cool (ha) and pull a little word game on Torme during the
interview. I said to him, "Mel, I've conjured a word due to your marvelous
talent. Whenever I'm doing a disc show of jazz and I need to used the musical
term, 'intonation,' I pronounce it, "intormation."
From the other end of the connection, there came nothing but silence. Mel
was not amused.
I punted and we continued a personable chat. But, I edited out the 'intormation'
part of the interview. I also cut out the part on the tape that included
the sound of my putting my foot in my mouth, telling him that I'd done such
things before.
March 19 2009 at 07:11:38 Name: Webmaster Topic: Getting on Irritated Tulsan's
nerves Comments:
Irritated
Tulsan posted an item of mine today about Wendy and Jim Berlowitz, eccentric
fixtures around the OU campus in the early 70s. I knew all about Wendy's
highly unorthodox approach to teaching poetry as a grad assistant, but I
dug up equally interesting stories about Jim. Also: 3 TTM links.
March 19 2009 at 03:16:29 Name: Webmaster Topic: The Misheard Hercules Comments:
At the end of every
"The Mighty
Hercules" cartoon in the early 1960s, Hercules hollered "Olympia!",
presumably his next destination. But I was weak on Greek mythology, so it
was unclear to me what he was saying.
The best interpretation I could come up with at the time was, "Hold it, Pierre!"
(I guess Pierre would have been an unaccountably French chariot driver.)
"Hercules, hero of song and story
Hercules, winner of ancient glory
Fighting for the right, fighting with his might
With the strength of ten, ordinary men!
Hercules, people are safe when near him
Hercules, only the evil fear him
Softness in his eyes, iron in his thighs
Virtue in his heart, fire in every part of
The Mighty Hercules!"
March 18 2009 at 18:45:18 Name: Rose Bowl Bunker Commander Topic: Western Village Aviation Comments: My parents built a home on 6th Street in Western
Village in 1961. I recall an anomaly of the lawns of several houses on 4th
or 5th Street, second to third block east of Garnett, and extending north
for how many blocks I no longer recall, which featured a much lusher grass
than their neighbors. I was told at the time that the houses were built on
a former grass air strip.
March 18 2009 at 17:47:37 Name:
Lee Woodward Topic: Short and Fog of it Comments: I have a lot of Bobby Short in my collection
and I'm sorry I never got to hear him live.
I also have some great things by Mel Tormé. One album in particular
is interesting. I bought it years ago (album date 1981) when it first hit
the market. Soon after that, I read that it was involved in litigation and
pulled from the market. I assume that it was likely released again one way
or another. The cover is neat as it was done by the late great Al Hirschfeld.
It's a two disc set, all recorded live at Marty's in New York City.
The "Friends" include Cy Coleman, Janis Ian, Gerry Mulligan, Jonathan Schwartz.
The Trio: Piano - Mike Renzie, Mel T. on Mountain Greenery, Bass - Rufus
Reid & Jay Leonhart, Drums - Donny Osborn.
March 18 2009 at 16:39:38 Name:
John Hillis Topic: The Velvet Fog and Mr. Case Night Comments: Mr. Torme figures tangentially in my
as-yet-unpublished (and for that matter, unfinished) novel. I hope it is
homage. You can buy "Careless Hands" on iTunes. Listen, and know all you
need to know, grasshopper.
In researching, you don't have to go very far to know he hated the sobriquet
"Velvet Fog," and also that he could have been a much bigger commercial success
had he not stayed true to the jazz art.
As for Johnny Martin, I only met him a couple of times, but. like most of
his listeners, felt like he was a close acquaintance. This very week, Kay
Starr came on the Sirius radio while I was driving, and I had to say, aloud,
"Oklahoma's own" after the fashion of Mr. Martin. This would have puzzled
my passengers, were there any. A legend in a town well-stocked with legends
per capita.
March 18 2009 at 11:09:05 Name: Heather Martin Topic: Johnny Martin Email: sundance_ut@msn.com Comments: I have been searching for members of my biological
family. I have been told many things through the years about a man by the
name of Johnny Martin AKA "the king" Is my grandfather.
I was at his funeral in Tulsa, but don't remember much. I was only a baby!!
So If anyone knew him well PLEASE let's talk. Let's exchange notes. I really
would like to know a lot more about him.
Thank You,
Heather Moon Martin
March 18 2009 at 09:45:57 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: E-mail from Stuart Odell Comments: Stu wrote:
Amidst all the historical footage I've been transferring to DVD for the Sixth
Floor Museum of Dallas, I've come across a reel of a newscast from WKY-TV
in 1972 with Jack Ogle as anchor and Jim Williams-weatherman. There's an
OTASCO spot in one of the breaks, as well as a local KFC spot with Mike Farrell
as talent. Quality is quite good....lots of slide tags on spots. Takes me
back.
Sign of the times...steak dinner at Sirloin Stockade for $1.59.
March 18 2009 at 05:24:23 Name: oldestoneontheweb Topic: Western Village fly-in or drive-in Comments:
I have seen the ads somewhere, maybe it was on pics of the signs on the front
of the place, or maybe I just remember it from being there, but there was
an emphasis on being able to fly into the Western Village.
At the time it was built, there wasn't a great deal of development around
Admiral and Garnett, and there possibly was a small grass strip out there.
Plus, Harvey Young is only a couple of miles away, so it might have referred
to that.
March 18 2009 at 00:07:16 Name: Mish Topic: Mazeppa 7-Up Card on eBay + Western
Village Email: Bill's Italian Restaurant
in Stillwater Comments: OK - which one of you TTM Mazeppa-philes was the
lucky winner of this on eBay?
"1970s
MAZEPPA Tulsa Oklahoma 7-Up Member CLUB Card Ok.!"
Went for $100.99 to bidder "i**b", Sunday at 6 p.m. Dang!
Also, re Western Village motel: didn't it even have an airstrip at one time?
There are photos of a helicopter landing at WV in those Beryl Ford pix
in GB 285.
March 17 2009 at 23:39:47 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Charlie! ads
Comments: The late Bobby Short did all the Charlie! ads or so
I thought.
Mel Torme played gigs with the Oklahoma City Symphony and some private gigs
there in the 80s (maybe Enid and Stillwater, too).
One of our editors at KOCO moonlighted as a chauffeur and drove "the Velvet
Fog" a couple of times. Said he was great to work for and a good tipper.
Folks forget that Mel Torme was also a drummer. I think once on the old (no
Desi) Lucy Show - he played drums in a bit.
OK, as the late Dr. Gene Scott used to say, "Play it again."
March 17 2009 at 18:18:19 Name: Webmaster Topic: Previous GroupBlog link Comments:
Archived GroupBlog 285. We just saw and talked
about a Mel Torme TV ad in the later 70s for Revlon's "Charlie". Another
topic discussed that hasn't appeared in the What's new section: the McCartney's
grocery store hostage/robbery situation in the 80s, one demand being airtime.
Gary Chew
Mike Miller
Jim Ruddle
Lee Woodward
John Hillis