August 17 2007 at 03:51:03 Name: Gene Savage Topic: 14K... For A Day Email: postmaster aht blacklightradio
dawt cawm Comments: Just a quick note to let you know my internet radio
station is running 22-year-old cassette tapes recorded off the radio all
day today (Friday) in honor of the anniversary of 14K & 92K (KELI AM/FM)
signing off.
We're calling it 14K For A Day and if you go to my site you'll see once again
the yellow / orange 14K logo. Listen, and you'll hear DJ's like Mel Myers,
Dave Michaels, Tom Brown, Brian Kane, Randy Fuller, Kandi Black, and others
spin the hot '80s hits again.
Mind you, the tapes are of varying qualities, in various conditions, all
recorded off the air... so pristine audio is NOT likely, ever, today. For
a slice of Tulsa radio history, though, it's hard to beat.
We'll run 14K & 92K's last hour on the air twice Friday August 17th,
at 11am and again at 11pm central time.
August 17 2007 at 03:12:11 Name: edwin Topic: It certainly is tropical here Email:
edwinfincherdottattaoldottadotcom Comments: Been gone for a bit...as I do. Lew was a fine kinda
guy...I, as all here, miss our Elders. Keep, in your Minds, anything they
might have told you (or tried to). The artists here are no different than
the finest brick layers....we are all trying to make other persons world
look as they would wish it. If you are seen, you're not doing your job. You're
showing off......
Edwin just sent three actual screen shots from the 1973 KTUL late night
show that he had a large hand in, MAINTAIN!
August 16 2007 at 15:23:08 Name: Si Hawk Topic: Larry White Email: sihawk@bokf.com Comments: Tony,
I remember your brother quite well. I worked with him at KAKC, KBEZ and KVOO.
He was Chief Engineer at all of those facilities. Larry was a great engineer
and a plenty nice guy!
August 15 2007 at 17:07:18 Name: Patrick Bryant Topic: Merv?
Comments: (Mike Bruchas wrote: "Didn't Merv also do some of his
show in OKC in conjunction with WKY-TV/KTVY-TV, too?")
I don't recall Merv ever coming to town, but Channel 4 did help produce a
number of episodes for Mike Douglas, former WKY employee, in the late 1970s.
Seems like the Stone Age now when I remember it...
August 15 2007 at 16:44:20 Name: Wilhelm Murg Topic: More Shameless Self-Promotion Email: wilhelmurg at yahoo dot
com Comments: We just got two new posts up this week.
First up is a review of a new DVD on Texas psychedelic legend Roky Erickson.
Roky was the leader of the 13th Floor Elevators, and he had a distinguished
solo career in the late seventies and early eighties when he redefined himself
for a new generation. In between those eras his life turned into a series
of mental illnesses, electroshock treatments and drugs. The DVD tries to
make sense out of it all.
We also take our last chance to kick the late Tom Snyder around in a loving
and critical memorial in this week's TIGER BEAT FROM HELL!!! If you're too
young to know who he was, Snyder was a minor TV legend who put a lot of punk
rock on the air before it was fashionable. It wasn't that Tom liked punk,
he actually seemed to hate it, but his show, "Tomorrow," was the first of
the tabloid television wave, and punk was seen as just another freak show.
All this and more is available at
myspace.com/WilhelMurg. Come
and check out some of the new graphics. We also got the music player working
again; that's right, 75 songs worth of what Wilhelm considers "good" music
is right at your fingertips (Give it a try, you're probably being paid by
the hour.)
Also remember to check out the source,
NONzine.com - Oklahoma City's source for
right-thinking articles and stories.
August 14 2007 at 14:58:20 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Phil Rizzuto dies at 89
Comments: What a guy, but way, way back when before you ever heard
of THE MONEY STORE, us guys at 8 saw this spot and a lot of Noo Yawk TV spots
on the ABC lines after what was then Wide World of Entertainment. WWE was
Dick Cavett, Geraldo, and concerts after the late news and long before NightLine.
When cable nets took off, THE MONEY STORE spots were everywhere.
But back to Phil as a ballplayer...he was a great one but I liked him best
as a play-by-play man.
August 14 2007 at 12:35:31 Name: David Batterson Topic: Merv's hotel Email:
davidbat(at)yahoo(dot)com Comments: Actually, Merv previously owned the Beverly Hilton
Hotel, not the Beverly Hills Hotel. ;-)
By the way, Merv had a small part in the 1954 movie,
"The Boy from Oklahoma,"
(IMDb) which starred Will Rogers, Jr.(Tulsa 1957 page). That movie was the basis for a later TV series
called "Sugarfoot."
Courtesy of Doug Quick. Check out his great Central Illinois TV/radio
site,
DougQuick.com.
Will "Sugarfoot" Hutchins
(Yahoo
Group) has an internet radio show at
Boston Pete.
August 13 2007 at 19:35:27 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Merv Griffin Comments: Somehow we missed that Merv had died Sunday
at age 82 of prostate cancer. I think I saw him last on Jimmy Kimmel some
time last Winter.
He and Sammy Davis Jr at one time owned Trans-American Video or TAV, one
of the first fancy mobile TV truck indy groups. Besides his Beverly Hills
Hotel - Merv did okay in TV after starting out as a Brit ex-pat, singing
"I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Cocoanuts".
He, Mrs. Miller, Totie Fields and Arthur Treacher are probably up there in
TV Heaven - hangin' out together.
Mike Douglas, Dinah Shore and Merv were the first "stars" to do daytime
talk/entertainment shows. That makes him yet another TV pioneer.
If you go to www.merv.com - you will find now the home page for THE GRIFFIN
GROUP - which owns race horses, property, TV show development and his DVD
collection.
Didn't Merv also do some of his show in OKC in conjunction with WKY-TV/KTVY-TV,
too?
August 13 2007 at 17:52:41 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Re pic of KTUL camera crew
Comments: We know where LD - Li'l David, aka Davie Finch, is.
Think Tuffy nick-named him Li'l David. Edwin Fincher would remember.
Clint Baul - no idea.
Dee Dee Dodson is happily married with 2 kids in Princeton, NJ. I believe
her hubby is an electrical engineer. She still keeps up with TV
technology.
August 13 2007 at 07:22:36 Name: Sonny Hollingshead Topic: Lew Brown Email: sonnyho1955 at yahoo dot
com Comments: Here is a link to Lew Brown's obituary:
August 12 2007 at
21:21:37 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: PGA Tulsans
Comments: From Jack Hobson:
During CBS' Sunday final round coverage of the PGA from Southern Hills, the
announcers gave technical credit to the local boys on the crew, Dave Finch
and Bob Welch, showing both hard at work. Nice touch, Finch referred to as
"the great Davie Finch".
Both are KTUL "boys" who went West in the 1970s.
August 12 2007 at 14:11:10 Name: Tony Email: tonypeggywataoldotcom Comments: Just now found your site. Grew up in Coffeyville.
Lived in Topeka, now in Kingman, Arizona.
My big brother, Larry White, worked for some radio stations in Tulsa. He
lived in a house on E 11th street at the three towers. Took me to many Tulsa
spots. The old Weber's on Peoria, the movie at the ice rink (the
Williams Cinema), Tulsa State Fair, KAKC and
KVOO radio events and many more.
Your site is very enjoyable. Especially Mazeppa and TV memories. I met Gailard
at the premiere of "The Buddy Holly Story" at that theater near Woodland
Hills. This guy was as humorous in person as on TV or in Ernest movies. Great
personality.
Sure like reading about old Tulsa as I spent many happy days there in late
60s to 90s. Sorry to hear about Rockin' John Henry. I have a Bopcats album
autographed by all original members.
Does anybody remember Larry? He died in November of 2002. His last job was
chief engineer or something at KVOO radio.
As I said, very enjoyable site. Keep up the good work.
Thank you,
Tony White
Thanks, Tony. Yes, your brother Larry was remembered by Sonny Hollingshead
on the KVOO page (scroll down a little).
Here is an item about Rockin' John on Mazeppa
page 3.
August 11 2007 at 19:30:47 Name: Mike Bruchas Topic: Lew Brown
Comments: Scott Blaker happened to see an obit for Lew Brown.
Lew passed at age 91 in Arkansas City. "Luigi" was a long time Engineering
Supervisor later Chief Engineer at KTUL-TV.
Always affable and funny; none of us ever heard a word in anger from him.
He was so typical of guys who made things work, often with near nothing in
a budget. Yeah, I would call him a KTUL pioneer. And maybe 6 mos. of the
year he wore his dayglo hunter orange hat - a Lew Brown trademark.
Oh, Lew! Thank you for so much!
August 11 2007 at 19:29:31 Name: Myron Floren Topic: Norma Zimmer
Comments: Re the photo entry 16 in this GB...that's some accordion
John Deas is leaning on.
If I had one like that back in the day, we could have done some electric
polkas with the Champagne Lady.
August 11 2007 at 17:34:04 Name: Gary Chew Topic: Southern Hills Sighting
Comments:
I've been watching the PGA in Tulsa on my local CBS affiliate here in Sacramento.
It's really fine to see Tiger as well as just how green Green Country is
in August; and all the way from dry Cahl-lee-foh-nee-yah, too.
The highlight of the tournament for me so far was catching a glimpse of Tiger
getting Lionel's autograph on the 17th.
Genuinely a Hallmark moment.
Delmeaux de Gillette du Coffeyville
August 11 2007 at 16:58:18 Name: Si Hawk Topic: Bill Halford Email: sihawk@bokf.com Comments: I suffer from a sin that is probably uncommon in
former news reporters; I don't read the newspaper every day. Sometimes I'll
read two or three day's newspapers at once. Net result: some really important
things are unknown to me in a timely manner.
One such example of this was the passing of an old co-worker at KJRH, Bill
Halford. According to the Tulsa World Bill passed away on July 31st. Bill
had been at Channel 2 for around twenty years prior to going to work for
an OKC TV station. What I remember most about Bill was he, Joseph Hardt and
I turning out hundreds of TV commercials back in the '80s when KJRH did most
of the television production in the Tulsa market. Bill was a good engineer
and loads of fun. His death leaves a hole in Oklahoma broadcasting!
August 11 2007 at 14:44:34 Name: Wilhelm Murg Topic: Brady Street Orchestra Email: wilhelmurg at yahoo dot
com Comments: I caught the first set, but didn't see anyone. We
would have stayed, but hunger set in, and as we all know, everything is closed
except for IHOP and fast food after 9 PM in this town.
August 11 2007 at 14:40:08 Name: Alan Topic: Brady Orchestra Email: nalamosnar at yahoo dot
com Comments: Thanks to all who showed up to hear the Brady Orchestra
the last two nights. This is a labor of love for Peter Mayo, I think he looks
at it as a gift to Tulsa...I know it costs a LOT to put on a show of this
size and ambition. We hope to be back next year.
August 10 2007 at 16:09:44 Name: David Bagsby Topic: Nelson's Email: daveatchickenfriedsteak Comments: I will look into this right away. It may be the
place with the giant mural of Charles Nelson Reilly.
August 10 2007 at 14:15:42 Name: Charles Topic: Nelson's
Comments: I just got back from our yearly excursion from Fargo
to Lawrence, KS and Tulsa. I could swear that I saw a new business going
in on the North side of 23rd St. in Lawrence called Nelson's Buffeteria.
Did I really see that...or was the Kansas heat getting to me? Mr. Bagsby
have you seen this?
August 10 2007 at 09:29:52 Name: Webmaster Topic: Free Beatles tonight II
Comments:
Here is an article about the Brady Orchestra in the Tulsa World Spot section
today,
"Roll
up, roll up..." by Max Porter.
Last night's show was great. We ran into TTM contributors Ken Harwood
and Casey Morgan, plus Dick and Alma Schmitz. More about the show
4 items down from here, and I just added a lot of new
material to it.
You can still catch the Orchestra's act: tonight (Friday) at London Square,
7 pm.
Here's a shot I took of the magical Utica Square setting last night:
August 10 2007 at 08:45:16 Name:
Lee Woodward Topic: PGA Practice Email: WanamakerTentDotFrom Comments: Heat is relative to your physical ability to handle
it. I can assure you, that while the pros are sweating it up at Southern
Hills, it's not bothering them as much as the press would have you believe.
In many cases, it is a blessing for people who have sore backs and muscle
problems.
The overweight and out-of-shape John Daly got through the day with NO water;
just diet Cokes and cigarettes. He also posted the second best score of the
day (very lucky.)
I played last summer when it got into the 104-105 range. If you dress right,
drink plenty of liquids and wear a broad brimmed hat, it's not too bad as
long as there is a little breeze. No breeze? Head for home.
Then there are those who have suffered heat stroke sometime in their life;
these people can't play many times if it gets around 90 degrees.
But between hot and cold? I'll take the heat anytime.
The people who suffer most at Southern Hills are spectators who get caught
in the no-breeze and no-shade zones.
This heat does cause Lionel's tongue to hang out when he goes out to practice
his "sand shots."
August 09 2007 at 22:37:31 Name: Kirk Demarais Topic: Phantasmagoria at Bell's Email: kirkdatcenturyteldotnet Comments: Hi Mike and fellow Tulsaphiles,
I just posted some newly surfaced info and images related to the classic
Bell's dark ride, Phantasmagoria. Kyle J. Wood of the Bell's maintenance
staff shared loads of facts and photos that span from the ride's earliest
days up until its demolition last June. See it all here:
August 09 2007 at 20:58:41 Name: David Bagsby Topic: HEAT Email:
davidunderscorebagsbyathotmaildotcom Comments: A fellow Tulsan who works at a bank in Topeka told
me that the PGA guys are having to practice at 4 AM due to heat. Who was
the guy that booked that gig?
August 09 2007 at 07:45:14 Name: Webmaster Topic: Free Beatles tonight Comments:
The Brady Orchestra will take the Summer's Fifth Night stage Thursday
at Utica Square at 21st and Utica. The group, which includes my brother Alan
on bass, will perform the Beatles' "Abbey Road" and "Magical Mystery Tour"
albums in their entirety. Alan says that the string section added this year
brings a new dimension to the show. The show starts at 7 pm and is free.
Tomorrow the group will appear at London Square (59th and Lewis), same
time.
Ken Harwood reviewed last year's show in
GroupBlog 215.
See the wild dancing woman!
The Brady Orchestra: Peter Mayo (left), keyboards; Eric Grimshaw,
percussion; John Deas, vocals; Rod Clark, trombone; Tom Hanford, guitar;
Mike Bennett, trumpet; Jody Naifeh, violin; Jeff Cowen, viola; Karen Harmon,
violin; Scott Musick, drums; Cathy Rad, cello; Alan Ransom, bass; Terry Cooper,
guitar; Max Wisley, lead vocals. Not shown: Randy Ess, guitar and vocals;
Tom Basler, keyboards.
Max Wisley and Bill Phillips (Bill was in attendance but not in the band
this time) were members of Cargoe (originally "Rubbery Cargoe"), a legendary
band of the early 70s from Tulsa who had a real shot at national stardom.
There is a link to an in-depth article about the band by writer Frank Gutch
on the KAKC page.
My brother Alan was a member of Randy Ess' Invisible Band. They made a
record and had a showcase at the Appollo
Delman around 1980. Randy appeared on KOTV's "Dance
Party" with the Rogues V in the 1960s. Alan has also worked with Terry
Cooper (of "Terry and the Hot Tubbers" fame) and Tom Hanford, who, I believe,
won a "Best Guitarist in Tulsa" competition one year. Mike Bennett has played
trumpet in the annual Starlight concerts for years. Scott Musick drummed
with Boiled Steam/Thunder & Lightning and The Call.
This is a sketchy and woefully incomplete account of these talented musicians.
Read more about Tulsa music history in Jim Downing's series for TulsaToday,
Tulsa
Rocks.
August 08 2007 at 08:40:09 Name: DolfanBob Topic: Leon Russell Email: MiamiPhin@yahoo.com Comments: There have been several posts lately about Tulsa's
own Leon Russell. I myself love Leon and always have and the
picture posted of him made me think of how important
image is. I mean with the sunglasses and a choice hat he is Big Daddy Cool.
But without, the only thing missing is a red suit and a child on his lap.
August 07 2007 at 08:29:46 Name: Webmaster Topic: Tulsa Fairgrounds, 1930s-50s Comments:
This TulsaNow
forum thread has a lot of interesting photos of the Fairgrounds pre-Bell's
Amusement Park.
August 06 2007 at 17:46:23 Name: John Hillis Topic: Back in the USA Email: Comments: As I was saying before the Belvedere ran over me...
I returned from a month in France last week as a chauffeur for my spouse
(exploits blogged on www.artistinfrance.blogspot.com). Here, exclusive to
TTM, is a capsule distillation of what I've learned from this delightful
experience:
1. It's hard to find a gas station open off the expressways on Sunday.
2. The 2007 Peugeot is at least as reliable as a certain '57 Plymouth. Mine,
with about 2000 km on it, I suspect lies still moribund in a garage in Brittany,
its wires dripping vital electrons onto the floor. You don't know how weak
you can feel when the mechanic speaks only French, the the only word you
understand from about 12 paragraphs is "electrique." To give Peugeot its
due, the car did have a great new car smell when we picked it up.
3. Belgian beer can be as good as French wine.
4. You don't learn a language by osmosis or just being around people speaking
it real fast. At least, I didn't.
5. If your sole source of English language news is BBC Radio Jersey, you
won't know a lot about what's happening in the U.S. (Old Jersey, an English
enclave 20-some miles off the coast in the Channel, has, as one expat told
us, "32,000 people and 64,000 cars.")
6. There is a hypermarche on the edge of about every French town of any size,
each with a remarkable selection of women's underwear, wine, sand buckets,
and Coca Cola, but no sliced meat that isn't ham.
7. The tradition of buying your baguette fresh each morning from the bakery
is a pretty darn good idea.
8. Lots of people in the parts of France where were, Brittany and Normandy,
still remember D-Day, and Patton, and don't seem to mind too much that we
blew up a lot of their towns real good in the process of getting the Germans
to go home.
9. Weather forecasting in Europe has not evolved into the high art it is
in, say, Oklahoma. Our source of weather was the bulletin board down the
street at the Commissioner of the Port's office, and it was generally something
loosely translated as "partly sunny, unless it rains." Strangely enough,
it was right, at least some of the time.
10. Air France has adopted the same baggage-smashing machines that United
has been using domestically for years.
August 05 2007 at 15:54:38 Name: David Bagsby Topic: Mooniac Email: dcbzatsunflowerdotcom Comments: Shameless plug #419: here's a link to my latest
3 minutes of kooky weirdness...enjoy...
August 05 2007 at 09:47:33 Name: Layne Mason Topic: My Days on KJRH-TV
Comments: I just wanted to say I had a wonderful time as a
meteorologist at KJRH-TV back in the early 90's. I'm currently teaching school
around the Cincinnati area. Thanks again for the great memories working John
Hudson and Jerry Webber.
August 05 2007 at 04:08:32 Name: Webmaster Topic: Special Chew radio show Sunday
evening
Comments:
Gary Chew is putting together a 2-hour radio show for this Sunday evening,
August 5th. It will be broadcast on KVMR in Nevada City, 89.5, and online
at KVMR.org. Air time is 6-8 pm PDT / 8-10
pm CDT (Tulsa Time). KVMR calls the show "Sunday Showcase"; Gary would subtitle
it "Third Streaming".
Gary has been going through his library for a listenable and challenging
mix of 20th century classical music and jazz. The first recording to air
on the show will be jazz pianist Warren Bernhardt playing Chopin's Prelude
#20 in C Minor, Opus 28, followed by jazz variations on that piece. Gary
says that the first time he saw Warren Bernhardt was at
the Rubiot in Tulsa.
Other composers bound to be heard are Ravel, Stravinsky, Honegger, Prokofiev,
Faure, Debussy, etc., with orchestral music, piano, brass, guitar, solo strings,
small string ensembles, etc.
Gary: "Being the ham I yam, I'd love for TTM junkies to give a listen
and even give me some cyber feedback."
August 04 2007 at 22:56:26 Name: Beverly Topic: Hawk's Dairy Email: BeverlyW58@hotmail.com Comments: Si,
Thank you so much for clearing that up for me! I went by there the other
day and am wondering if the building is still there....or part of it. A building
that looks somewhat like the one on the TTM Christmas card was just east
of the northeast corner.
I love the Christmas card with the snow
falling. When the weather is really warm...too warm...I put it on the
computer screen in my classroom so the children and I can all think of
Christmas...and possibly feel cooler! For some reason when I see that picture
and others of Hawk's, I feel like I've been there. But, if it closed in 1961,
I think I would have been too young to remember. I wish I had gotten to go
there, anyway.
I meant to get back on here much earlier, but my son and his girlfriend were
in a tragic boating accident last weekend on Skiatook Lake. They are both
fine, but a good friend died. It's been a rough week.
Now that I have the chance. I'm going to catch up reading what I missed this
week on here.
August 04 2007 at 16:22:21 Name: Old Man Topic: Time Passages/Time Bends
Comments: The time: ca. 1963-4.
The place: Horton, Kansas, a small town in NE Kansas, north of Topeka.
I was 12, my sister was 10; we were visiting our maternal grandparents.
(In those days, the trip from Tulsa to NE Kansas was a 2-lane nightmare delight
on old 75. Dramamine was a good friend.)
My sister and I had recently read an article about Time Capsules, perhaps
in "National Geographic" or the supplementary kid's version thereof. There
was a short, dry-set retaining wall in the alley out back of their house.
Perfect.
We loaded an Alka-Seltzer bottle with the signs of the times: a tiny arrowhead
we'd found in the gravel spread on the alley, several headlines from the
Topeka newspaper, one of our Grandmother's Salems, etc.
We found the perfect stone to worry out of the retaining wall, and ceremoniously
consigned the Time Capsule to The Ages.
One of these fine days, I'll travel back to see if it's still there.
Alas, probably in worse shape than the Belvedere. Just a bottle of dust,
like something out of the 1960 film of H.G. Wells' "The Time Machine".
Moral of the Story: Memory is the only true time capsule, and time machine.
(Though I hold out a slight "hope against hope", as the Russian poet said,
for the latter.)
August 03 2007 at 14:29:14 Name: Wilhelm Murg Topic: Time Capsules Email: Wilhelmurg at yahoo dot
com Comments: WIth all the talk of time capsules, and the ruining
of a perfecly good car, I keep thinking of an old
"Word
Jazz" by Ken Nordine where he came up with the concept of the do-it-yourself
time capsule. The idea is to take the power out of the hands of the corporations
and governments an give it back to the people. You could bury your capsule
in an obvious place, or put it somewhere where it might not be found for
centuries.
If plastic is going to be around as long as we think it will, we ought to
look into this.
I'll never forget hearing Nordine's "Hunger Is From" late at night on
KGOU in Norman in the early 70s.
August 03 2007 at 10:57:57 Name: David Bagsby Topic: Encapsulation Email: dcbatsunflowerdotcom Comments: Time for Tulsa to bury a new time capsule; this
time however, it should be Professor Fate's car from the Great Race. Push
the button, Max!
"The Great Race" was the first movie I saw at the new
Boman Twin (Beryl Ford photo) in 1965.
August 03 2007 at 00:20:29 Name: David Bagsby Topic: Popeye some more Email: dcbzatsunflowerdotcom Comments: Just finished watching disc 1 of the
Popeye
set. Spectacular production/restoration. The additional shorts on the
origins in Segar's strips are great also. Tell your spouse this is what you
want for Xmas.
August 02 2007 at 14:03:54 Name: David Bagsby Topic: Popeye Email: dcbatsunflowerdotcom Comments: Mike,
Thanks for posting that pic/story of Leon and the Popeye disc info. That
was a halcyon period for cartoons and I'm glad somebody finally is giving
it a good release.
The Fleischer Popeyes were tied up in legal knots for years, and only
bootleg copies were available on eBay. I was excited to hear that's all been
sorted out.
August 02 2007 at 13:15:34 Name: Si Hawk Topic: Hawk's Dairy Email: sihawk@bokf.com Comments: Beverly,
In answer to your question about the Tulsa location for
Hawk's Dairy, the Tulsa store was located
at the northeast corner of 11th and Lewis. This was the headquarters of the
business where the milk and ice cream processing, service garage and truck
fleet were also located. There were also Hawk Dairy store locations in Sapulpa,
Henryetta and Oklahoma City. The dairy farm was located in Owasso. The products
were sold in grocery stores in Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Arkansas and of course
Oklahoma. The company closed in 1961.
Si, I'll get your comments and Beverly's out to the linked page later
today.
August 02 2007 at 12:30:32 Name: Webmaster Topic: Previous GroupBlog summary
Comments:
Archived GroupBlog 248, where we just saw a
recent photo of Leon Russell without sunglasses...