I was sorry to read that Joe Hardt has been ailing and glad he's better. After all of the postings about "old-timers" from the 70's and 80's, it's good to hear of another from my era of Tulsa TV. Joe was a floor/camera man when I was an announcer at Ch 2. He was one of the best and I was not surprised to later hear he was directing. I wasn't around Tulsa when he went on-camera. Joe, there aren't many of us left and I'm fading fast.

I was sorry to hear that Joseph Hardt has been ailing. I used to do some spots at KVOO and Joe usually was the director. Always amiable and not given to doing a dozen "takes" as some lesser souls were addicted to.

On other matters; The late founder of Corinthian TV (Wrede Petersmeyer,) contended that the best chili he ever ate was just up the back alley from KOTV at "Phil's Diner." This was a four or five stool venue just behind the old police station. Phil was from the Boston area and had the accent to prove it. His place was tiny and drafty and would not pass a normal Health Department inspection. Nevertheless, a lot of us ate there out of desperation. I remember one cold afternoon when a lady sitting next to me...stirred up a really world class cockroach from her bowl of chili! She made a gasping sound and held this specimen up for Phil's waiter (an old deaf fellow) to see. He shouted to Phil! Phil came over, looked and said; "No charge, no charge!" At this point the lady exited...green-faced. If this had happened to Petersmeyer, he would have "hurled!"

I was happy to be eating a hamburger and never ate chili there again. I transferred my allegiance up the street to "Mary's."

I'm sure many of my former 6-Mates have some hairy memories of "Phil's" too!

Saw Josef Hardt over the weekend. He's had some health problems but he's on the mend and looks real good. He knows about this website and he's really amused at all the people who remember him and recognize him as Peter Hardt from Fantastic Theatre.

Thanks for the good news about Josef Hardt, Kenneth. Awhile back, he told me that his daughter had seen the site in Europe, but I don't know if he has made it out here yet. We could use more info on the Fantastic Theater page.

On an unrelated note, just got some bio data from Forrest Brokaw. It will be out here shortly.

And check out the new video of Carl Bartholomew's "8's The Place" promotion of the late 70s. I wish the video quality could be better, but not everyone has a high speed connection yet. Since "Charlie's Angels" has made a comeback, this eye candy from the same era is timely! ("Jimmy's Angels"?) Visit John F. Lawhon Furniture at the bottom of that page.

I liked Uncle Zeb's Channel Eight Lady. A far superior lass than Miss Piggy (with whom I was reported to be thick with.) My right hand man showed me some pictures of a Channel 6 gal, but these could not be displayed! I think her name was "Trixie Hicks!"

Thanks for that input, King!

Dr. Lyle Owen was an excellent economics professor at TU. I had him for two graduate courses, and learned a lot from him. During the McCarthy period some people referred to him as "Red Lyle." His "hue" consisted of, (1) trying to get the students to look at economic systems as they really were, not as the propaganda said they were, and (2) giving assistance to the poor. Pretty tame by today's standards, but risky in Tulsa when "Tail-gunner Joe" and the local Nazis were riding high.

Owen was actually more renowned for his grading system in his introductory course of American Government. All questions were true-false, but he penalty graded, meaning that, if you got a question correct, you received one point, but, if you got one wrong, you lost two points. This discouraged guessing and getting correct answers by sheer 50-50 chance.

This could result in a student getting a negative grade. But Owen told his students the first day of class that, in the event they had a negative score, he would magnanimously raise their grade to "a respectable zero."

From a 1999 Economics alumni newsletter at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, we learn that:

"Lyle OWEN (PhD 1937) says he is a 92-year-old antique, but long, long ago, he was in residence, 1927-1930, as a graduate student at Madison."

Back in the 70's, we had a most successful campaign going called, 8's The Place. We put an 8's The Place on anything moving or not moving e.g., cement trucks, boats, kites, cows, airplanes, babies, puppies biceps, butts, boobs, etc.

And speaking of boobs, there was one young lady in a yellow 8's The Place swim suit in a beach scene who became a legend in her own time. Her real name was Cindy Otto, but she became known as the 8's The Place Girl. She was so sensational that we had a poster made of her and had thousands of copies printed. And we actually sold them on the air for a brief time until the public outcry became so strong that we had to take the spot off the air.

Since it was my creation, you would think I would have at least one copy somewhere. But somehow I don't. So, if anyone should happen to have an extra copy stashed away someplace, I would certainly like to get my hands on it (the poster that is) as it would be a pleasant reminder of the wonderful times I spent at KTUL. Please drop me a line if you have any leads.

Thanks,
C.B.

The webmaster replied:

Carl,

Mike Bruchas gave me a copy of a video tape with a number of the 8's The Place promotions on it. Is this the gal you are talking about? I thought she was Mrs. Kent Doll.

If you like, I will post your note in the Guestbook.

Mike,

Thanks for your prompt reply. Yes, you have the right gal from the 8's The Place spot. She's the poster girl I'm looking for. However, that is not Mrs. Diana Doll. Mrs. Doll is in the same spot wearing a red one-piece swim suit on a sailboat. Also on that boat is a girl wearing a white bikini (name unknown). Interestingly, the day we filmed that promo, I spotted her on the back of a Harley and asked if she wanted to be in the movies. She did, and she obviously complimented the shot and the spot. Mrs. Doll can also be seen hitting an 8's the place volleyball.

But the most remembered shot of the whole spot will always be, the 8's The Place Girl in the yellow bathing suit, which actually was a tiny yellow leotard which had to have stretched at last 10 times its size. Also, it was cold on the day we filmed that shot and a lot of people say they could tell that it was.

And yes, I would like for you to put my note about the poster on the Guest Page.

Thank you for your assistance and interest.

Carl B.

After careful examination, I must concur with "a lot of people".

I will get a RealPlayer clip of this video out here shortly for you serious Tulsa TV scholars.

FYI: Lyle Owen was Judi Judy's father. That's all the information I have on this matter at this particular time.

M.P.

Thank you, Dr. P. We hope to have a contribution from Yahootie Menu soon! Any recent John Baker (Lazlo Memne) sightings on Springer or other shows?

I lived in Broken Arrow from '72 to '85 and have many memories of Tulsa TV. I was scrolling through an earlier guestbook from last year (#25) and noticed that the site administrator wished for a shot of Dick West's "Lord's Prayer" sign language from Channel 8's nightly signoff. If one is still desired, I happen to have an old video copy of same from 1979 (along with the Ray Charles "America the Beautiful" video of local events) that I would be glad to duplicate and send your way. Just e-mail me at the above address. I still miss the area and visit when I can, and thoroughly enjoy this site. I'll check back with memories when time allows.

Steve, that would be fantastic! I'll put it out here as a video that everyone can enjoy. Glad you're enjoying the site.

That was Ivy Cadenhead, who was a really decent guy. Interestingly, another TU professor, Lyle Owen, who taught government and political science, ran for Congress in Missouri, where he had a second home. He published an article about it, in some national magazine, and had his classes read reprints as part of their course studies. He was also a nice sort, although his liberal leanings were a bit too much for his time and place.

In 1956, my TU history professor, Dr. Cadenhead, ran as a Democrat for the congressional seat that Synar later had. (I assume the congressional boundaries were similar---a narrow strip across the northern part of the state, including Tulsa.) An entrenched Republican encumbant, a do-nothing guy named Page Belcher, won easily.

Cadenhead told me that, although he worked hard to get elected, no newspaper or radio station would cover his campaign or let him have any space on their pages or any air time.

You should have heard KTUL's Roy Pickett's "commercials" for Belcher, always ending with a big, loud belch.

Was that Ed Cadenhead? I believe he ran again in the 60s. I seem to remember some anti-intellectual sentiment expressed toward him. I would guess that in 1956 (pre-Sputnik), there would have been even more.

If Page Belcher were running today, he could close his ads with an aural rebus: a pager going off, followed by a loud belch. That might even top "the man with two first names" (Spencer Bernard) as a vote-getter!

Here's a Tulsa TV election tie-in...

Looks like incumbent Betty Boyd will lose her house seat. I believe this is a surprise, but I've never been accused of being a political analyst.

That is so. I read that her seat was one specifically targeted by the Republican Party. This was to have been her last term even had she won; perhaps general knowledge of that was a factor.

TO: Sonny - we used to cut the Ted Risenhoover spots at 8 so long, long ago! Reminds me now of Uncle Duke in the Doonesbury comics or a Okie pale version of Hunter S. Thompson.

A weird character but his brother or cousin wrote spy novels that weren't bad but never found a big audience. Think he had HIM on Betty Boyd's show.

Another nephew worked at OETA with me - Neal (?) Risenhoover as a camera op - who rolled his own cigs and was a good lighting guy. One of best studio people we had at OETA.

Re "CLAM" - okay Clem McSpadden - loved that man as a politico, wished he would have stayed in politics - my idea of "every man goes to Congress and tries to figger it all out". Maybe he was too honest for DC. Good auctioneer too.

His son or nephew Wyatt is an OUTSTANDING stills shooter that lives in Austin, TX and shoots a lot for TEXAS MONTHLY.

Former KOCO then later KPNX shooter Jay McSpadden is a far far distant relative I believe who met "CLAM" in OK on assignment - though then bearded and of longer hair he looked like a McSpadden facially and build-wise. Them McSpadden clan members git around!

To Jim Back,

Ted Risenhoover was the Second District Congressman before Mike Synar. Clem McSpadden preceeded him.

What year and against whom did Mike Turpen run for governor and use the slogan 'TURPENTIME'? Any photos?

If Zeb had anything to do with them mountain drawings, there'd have been an "8's the Place" design stuck on it somewhere.

Here in Virginia today, we had the usual candidates plus two amusing constitutional issues: one designating state lottery revenues to go exclusively to education. But the really cute one was to amend the state constitution to declare that "hunting, fishing, and harvesting" game is a right. If they'd have added road kill specifically to the harvesting option, they'd have probably got my vote. Watch the returns on that one tonight, it'll tell you how endangered our Redneck population really is here in the Ol' Dominion. It's only a matter of time before the last one are put in a perserve (maybe around a NASCAR track, natural habitat and all that) and watched like whooping cranes.

Vote early, often, and for Sen. Bob Shatwell!

You might find it interesting that I played the documentary "Hemp for Victory" on my public access TV program "Alternative Views" here in Austin. It was part of a show which also featured the author of the pro-hemp, etc., book "The Emperor Wears No Clothes."

In Austin you can also buy granola with hemp in it at the health food stores.

It's a shame---even a scandal---that Tulsa never had a public access operation. Even many small towns have them.

It is good to hear from Waldo P. Hoopernick, Sr. I used to hang out with his son, Waldo, Jr. I appreciate the advice to write in Dr. Rev. Park but with the recent revelation of his arrest at the Yellow Submarine Disco for smoking potatoes, well, I don't know.

Speaking of politicians, Jim Halsey used to hire my brother and I to help with the Roy Clark Star Night. Once, former president Gerald Ford was a guest. As he was being escorted on to the stage, great care was exercised to make sure that he did not trip over cables, equipment, etc. I suppose his daughter still lives here.

In closing, I never did care for Synar but the people in his district sure liked him. It is always sad when we lose someone. In closing, I really hated see Steve Allen go. He was The Man.

Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy

Who was the U.S. Rep. before Mike Synar? The one with the heart shaped bed and mirror on the ceiling?

Also, anyone remember in the 1970s, the year Gary Hart vowed to be a straight-arrow politician but got linked to some bimbo? That was the same year some goofball ran against David Boren for re-election to the Senate. In one of his sleazier ads the guy claimed Boren was . . . well, less than straight (arrow), if you get my drift; a charge Boren denied. Frosty Troy in one of his commentaries on KRMG said that was the only election year he could remember in which one of the politicians swore he didn't sleep with women, and another one swore he did!

The pic has nothing to do with your comment, but it is timely. "Democrats for Nixon"...that now seems quaint. The worker looks rather glum.

To Mike Bruchas: I think Fred Harris may be at the University of New Mexico.

fharris@unm.edu

Sen. Harris was another really nice politician. Was accessible to the news media and always very cooperative.

Here is a pic of Mike Miller with Henry Bellmon.

Ooops typo - met Mrs.Bellmon when I was AT 5 in OKC not 5 years old....

I know Edwynne Synar but haven't seen her in 7-8 years. She formerly worked for Roger Corman in Hollywood many moons ago making "B" movies before getting into computers and working for a slough of airlines.

I like her and barely knew her brother, the late Rep Mike Synar and heard some pretty horrible stories from her years back about early "soft money" (read tobacco and other OUT OF STATE) interests attacking him a few years back. She said her Dad wanted to deck some clowns at some rally harassing Mike - they may NOT have been Oklahomans to begin with.

Mike never had a lot of money for advertising spots - the out of state interests did and painted their ads to sound like indignant Okies mad and united against Synar. People in OK are more gullible I think at times if the smear is slanted to look like "the common man" was affected by some of the issues Synar worked on.

Hard to believe about the only job he ever really had after college was representing OK. Some of you folks will never know how honest he was and what a good guy OK lost when he died. And he died a pretty horrible death for anyone at a young age...

The talk of all the negative, hateful, soft money ads brought this back to me...

I think Edwynne or Jane Hobson said that Bill Clinton - long before Monica-gate - was one of the last folks to see the Congressman on a special visit in the hospital here. It meant a lot to him and the Synar family....

You have to look at the ads to see WHOM is paying them, especially all the Medicare "propaganda" that is "fighting for seniors rights" - most of it is soft money FOR the insurance industry, I am sorry to say...I agree with Sen. John McCain - it's gotta change....

TO Don Norton: Thanks re Mrs. Bellmon - I only met her twice but she was a very decent lady! Talked to her on the phone several times when I was 5 in OKC and Henry was doing commentaries there -- before he was Gov. again.

I am sure she and Henry were married close to 50 years by now.

I think of his life - starting out in OK, being a Marine on Saipan in WWII, being a college prof then getting into politics - pretty amazing stuff. She was with him a long time - a good partner in their long and varied life. We should all be so lucky....

Why did Gov. Boren give up the Senate to be OU president? Why? Why? Why? Is he still married to Judge Mollie Shi?

Where are Fred and LaDonna Harris now?

Someone said David Hall was either in NM or Palm Springs, CA.

Any Edmondson's still in OK politics?

Channel 8's Mike Miller started me thinking. Where are these guys now? What are they living on for moolah? Are they est trainers, web mavens, conspiracy theorists or flea market managers? Okay Boren gets a check from the Regents....

Lookout Mtn - is owned by Native American Fred Lookout and family & is home to KTUL-TV.

Turkey Mtn was home to a lot of folks hiking there to grow and smoke their own in the '70's/'80's.

Which I think brother Brumley is sufferin' second or third-hand smoke from....OR he is spending too much time at SPAMerica on-line...

Friends! On election Day - vote your conscience, vote your heart, but NEVER your wallet - write in Dr. Menlo Park for your Congressional representative and Teddy Jack Eddy for Presydink! Vote "Know Nothing" this year so we don'ts get BUSHwhacked or GOREd by them politicians! NADER of them deserve your votes and I ain't BUCHANANing the system when I says this...Aren't you tired of this whole campaign thing on all levels?

Put your stamp on Hemp!

I thought Channel 8 was on Lookout Mountain, not Turkey Mountain.

OK, let's forget about those Zeb petraglyphs...unless Zeb cleverly placed them on Turkey Mtn. to allay suspicion...nah.

"Creature Feature's" Jeanne Trippplehorn is starring in a new CBS TV series.

Gloria Farley, a well known archaeologist, posted the following information regarding a petraglyph on a cliff on Turkey Mountain:

Fig. 3-18 Possible autograph of Sturdy and Zeb, Turkey Mountain, Tulsa, Oklahoma. Transliteration and translation by Fell. Now, the truth may never be known, but I thought there is a possibility that Uncle Zeb did that petraglyph drawing as a modern hoax on the rock translators...wasn't Uncle Zeb Channel Eight and isn't Channel Eight on Turkey Mountain...??? The URL where these petraglyphs can be seen is http://www2.privatei.com/~bartjean/chap3.htm

Gary, I'm wary of hoaxes after that "Chortles" fiasco, but you make an interesting point. Can Zeb confirm, deny or comment?

Speaking of hoaxes, before you (not you, Gary) forward that next big bux-promising email to all your friends, you might profit from a perusal of The Urban Legend Combat Kit. The Urban Legends Reference Pages delve into the psychological bases of a wider variety of urban legends.

For Mike Bruchas, Esq.:

Wes Watkins is still out there as 3rd district congressman. Only thing: About three elections ago he changed his registration from Democratic to Republican.

Historical note: Three years ago Oklahoma's entire House delegation (six Republicans) voted against the campaign finance reform proposals offered in the Senate by Republican John McCain. So did the House leadership--but miraculously, it passed, with Democrats and a few forward-looking Republicans voting in favor. Trent Lott immediately buried it and the Senate got no chance to vote on it.

To relate this to Tulsa TV, the three major stations are virtually alternating spots all evening for the combatants in the dirty 2nd district race (where Tom Coburn is quitting). The Tulsa World reported Friday nearly one and a half million dollars has been spent in the race on television advertising, 58 per cent of it money not from Oklahoma, but from the respective party headquarters in Washington.

Henry Bellmon's wife died a few weeks ago, but Henry is still the same "decent and honest" politician you remember, traits that occasionally got him in conflict with the Republican state party leadership (the Daily Oklahoman crucified him for agreeing to the treaty giving the Canal Zone back to Panama, for one thing)

Another Tulsa TV note: Betty Boyd is running for her last term in the legislature; she gets hit by the asinine term limits law in 2002 if reelected (the voters have ALWAYS had a term-limitation device--it's called an election). The Republicans targeted her last time and she won by only 120 votes. They're doing it again.

In keeping with the election season, here are some Oklahoma politicians I’ll never forget in no particular order: Mayor Jim Maxwell, who would go out drinking with the press corps. Mayor Jim Hewgley was fun to kid and bountiful fodder for the blooper reel.

Dewey Bartlett was a laid-back nice guy who almost seemed out of place in the world of politics. Yet he was Senator, Governor and served in the legislature. Mike Monroney because he never looked at you during an interview, only directly into your camera. David Hall who had the incredible gift of never forgetting someone’s name. Remember his bitter feud with Democratic County Chairman Thomas Dee Frasier. David also left the office of Tulsa County Attorney with this great spoonerism: “I owe a gret of daditude….”

Mike Bruchas mentioned Page Belcher. I was interviewing him live at the Hilton one election night and asked about his health. He put his hand to his ear and yelled: “What!” Page may have been hard of hearing, but easy to kid. He spent so much time in Washington we used to ask him,” Congressman, has the town changed much since your were here last?”

Jim Jones was one of the best Members of Congress I observed. He always did something for every constituent who asked for help, whether it was writing a letter or making a phone call.

Then there was a Tulsa politician who was arrested in Moscow during an around-the-world flight because he didn't think a congressman needed a passport.

Hey, Mike, I see the back of your head over on Jack Frank's Tulsa Memories video page! I think part of your Jayne Mansfield interview is on that tape.

KTUL sales staff in the '70's - will always remember them having too many ROS - "run of schedule", not a specific time buy (like in News)- spots sold one election year. Good money for 8. Hard work by Sales too.

Either Tom Roberts or one of the Blaker brothers on audio, Gene Tincher on tape and I had to stay till 2:30 or 3a.m. on that Monday night before Election Day to get all the contracted spots in to air.

We had ABC Monday Night Football, maybe The Frank (zzz) Broyles Show then. ABC ran 4 nights a week WWE - Wide World of Entertainment -Dick Cavett, Geraldo, In Concert or a bad movie - but not on Mondays in football season because games ran LATE.

We ran an oat-burner Western "B" movie AFTER the 60 min. Broyles bore-fest to get all the spots sold to air and honor contracts.

I think there was NO audience that late on a Monday night. 2 and 6 had signed off like at 1a.m... But we got all the spots aired.

This was around the same night some guy (county commissioner from downstate) called again -wanting to buy time for a pre-election night "talk" after the late news on election eve. Of course he called AFTER 10:30pm when Sales was gone and all the logs had been "finaled"....

No no no, Chair Okie Boy.

The word here is that the polls should have a record number of voters this time around and to make all move so more smoothly - Republicans vote Tuesday, Dems vote Wed., Naderites vote Thursday and Bat Puchananites - never mind.

The Tulsa Board of Elections will provide crayons to all voters - this computerized voting stuff may have Y2K bugs in them...

Remember - vote early and vote often! Don't forget to bring out the dead - uh your relatives that is and if they can't vote - you can for them.

Be sure to vote YES on the amendment to make Coors the State Beer of Oklahoma, too.

No official winners till THE DAILY OKLAHOMAN says so....

I just have one very important announcement to make:

Don't know if any of you have heard or not, but due to the anticipated higher than normal volume of voter turnout this year, the election board has requested that Democrats vote on Tues. the 7th, and Republicans on Wed. the 8th.

This has been a public service announcement.

Just archived Guestbook 60...

We heard from former KOTV sportscaster Glen Fisher for the first time. Uncle Zeb got online and paid us a visit! He also sent more background on the Zeb show. We heard about the time Mazeppa flopped onto Kitty Gibbons' news desk in the middle of her broadcast. A Mack Creager story was told.

Also heard more about early cable news services INN and SNC. Forrest Brokaw was discussed. Barnsdall and OK politics rounded things off.

The discussion continues here in Guestbook 61!